From a psychological & empathetic perspective you are right. Sadly, children of narcissists are groomed & programmed from birth to serve the narcissist. Additionally, they are incentivized in their formative years to be puppets and highly narcissistic themselves, and it just keeps going.
Due to having their reality distorted their entire youth, it takes a long time, a lot of strength, some good luck, internal goodness & fortitude to escape most of it, and rise above, so much love to all who do or are trying.
I too feel pity for any child that was, is or will be trapped by having a parent who supposed to nurture them be narcissist, and worst of all, a malignant one like trump. That makes it all the harder to escape and be free of it, which is something Ivanka will never know until maybe she has an epiphany as a very old and regretful lady..
Thank you, Sam. I was really hoping to see your professional view on this. I always value your input on these matters. I always hope people on a bad path can wise up and self-correct but it often takes a ton of hard knocks.
Most welcome Alicia. Unfortunately, once someone crosses into the pathological level, stats say few to none ever really change, even with the hardest of knocks. They are already so broken that hard knocks just makes them go underground and they get better at hiding who they are. On the bright side, once one accepts that truth, it becomes clear you should stop wasting any energy or time on them, not of your choosing.
Agreed. It is like I keep saying--I get why she is the way she is, but that won't mean I would want her in my life. My compassion only can envelope so much, and yeah, I learned that the hard way trying to save people who didn't want to save themselves. My only hope to recognize someone in the same fear and pain cycle as she is when they are young enough to be helped and maybe help them before they are set into stone.
OK. You said it. She and her brothers ARE tragic figures. Yet, I cant feel sorry for any of these people. They've been raised to grift, lie, and steal. If they had been raised by a nice midwestern family in Iowa, they would (hopefully) have turned out to be something else other than the worthless mini-monsters that they are. Money cant buy class, common sense, or integrity. It can buy some world class counseling, though. I would guess that Ivanka and her brothers dont even understand WHY they should find a therapist. You made me think, Alicia. Thanks! ✌️
We hate them for their actions and they should pay for them, but l do think in a diifferent environment they may have been better people. We will never know.
Indeed we will never know. That’s the tragedy of it all. I cannot begin to imagine what a warped upbringing they must’ve had. Every family (EVERY FAMILY) is dysfunctional to a degree but these unfortunate souls got more than their share. Are they accountable for their actions as adults? Yes. But I hope I never get to the point where I can’t at least acknowledge that they probably never had a chance.
Lee, you are right--I truly think all families are dysfunctional to a degree because all families are headed by people with flaws. Even good parents trying to do the right things the right ways can screw up.
I know you get it, if anyone does. And if good parents doing their best, despite their flaws, can still raise flawed children…, well, you see where I’m going with this.
Exactly. They're broken people and broken people tend to break other people. I feel bad for all of them. They're obviously miserable. It's no wonder they behave like miserable people.
Precisely, Robin Williams once said "Be kind to awful people, they are the ones who need it most." I agree although I do not often live that principle. It is hard.
Agree. If she had shunned him, and stayed out of the white house during his administration, I would be more inclined to be kind to her, but she rode that ride after buying the ticket.
I’m with you on this, however, I do not feel sorry for her. Yes, she had a bad father. However, her father had a bad father and it probably goes much further back in the genetic line.
Nevertheless, what is Ivanka doing to clean up her own act while she a married to another sleezball who also had a bad that I think was pardoned from prison or had sentence commuted by the crazy pumpkin. I have my own story of abuse. But, that is in the past and I work hard to exorcise the ghosts of my past and be a better person.
That is all we can try to do, be better--but yes, almost all abusers were once victims. I suppose my larger POV is that we can recognize ppl were abused, empathize and still hold people accountable for their actions.
This was a point I was going to make about marrying a monster. Many of us who were abused go through a series of abusive relationships until we figure out what is drawing us to them and break the pattern. But the dysfunctional dynamics are hard to see if life is pretty good. Many of us just struggle and keep asking why until we make our lives better. She probably never had to figure out why things kept going wrong.
No need to reply to the message I sent you about my sister. Yes, there may have been monsters in your life but you can still read Voltaire in French. I was once able to read some Kafka in German so know the joy of reading one in the language they wrote in.
OMG. Girl you nailed this. We have something in common. After my abuse, I protected my younger sisters from an early age (10) too. To the point they had no idea and were even outraged by the truth.
Also, I think you turned it into a super power like I did, especially in writings.
In my novel Pinot Noir, I modeled the girl trapped in a tower to be sold to the highest bidder after Ivanka. I've always been surprised no one picked up on that.
"Imagine, if you will, a dad who may have not only done non-fatherly things to you, but he may have passed you around like candy to folks like, I dunno, Epstein.
A more than likely scenario—I don’t know too many people who would grow up normal after that.
There is also the golden cage dilemma, being perceived as beautiful, rich and entitled with no real problems—who would listen to her screams about abuse?
Being raped on golden sheets as a child is still rape."
"OMG. Girl you nailed this. We have something in common. After my abuse, I protected my younger sisters from an early age (10) too. To the point they had no idea and were even outraged by the truth."
I think that is why we can see this. Look at the picture of her in the silver dress. Trump's arm is around her--her hands at her side, no smile--captured pain in her eyes.
She does not like his touch being here, but what can she do? Yell? scream? She'd look insane.
That is the horror of that kind of abuse. How it mentally traps you and you are forced to smile through a ton of pain. I will bet money he abused her from a very, very young age.
I always knew there was a reason I felt a kind of kindship with you. Love you and thank you.
And I agree, we don’t have to ever like our abusers. My experience was to finally stop blaming others and realize I was in control. It took lots of therapy but that seemed to be the turning point for me. It felt empowering.
Thank you for your post. My earliest memory is from when I was about 2 years old & felt a horrible pain in my vagina although I had no idea what to call it…to this day, I’m not sure if the pain was caused by my father or a cousin who went on sexually abusing me until I was twelve.
I was and still am a dysfunctional woman who had two beautiful children but couldn’t be a good mother to them. My daughter has written me out of her life & won’t speak to me, my son is my rock. I don’t blame her, I was a neglectful mother & I own that 100%. This is what can happen to women who have been sexualized.
Sandra, I understand and feel your pain. I think my father wanted to be good as well. He grew up in a loving but strict evangelical household and was disavowed by his father, who was a deacon at his church. He was a charming, at times even fun man, but he exerted violent control over his lovers, be they male or female. It left scars that made it difficult for me to function for many years in my youth--we eventually learn and fly straight if it is in us to do so. Sending love to you.
Thank you for your understanding & love. I don’t blame her for what she felt she had to do for herself to heal from my toxicity & I support her. The one thing I cling to is that she’s never tried to alienate her 3 children from me; that is a balm to my heart.
I’m so sorry for what you had to endure and what you’re still going through. It has to be hard to be estranged from your daughter. It sounds like you have put a lot of thought and energy into what happened and the mistakes you made and you should be proud of yourself for that. Everyone makes mistakes to one degree or another. No matter how bad, the willingness to acknowledge them and be sorry about them is what is important. And you’ve done that. That’s gold.
Thank you Deborah, I appreciate your kind words & support. My heart breaks every day because she isn’t in my life but I do understand that she feels that her choices are necessary. As I said before, my son is my rock, he is still a loving presence in my life.
I’m so happy you have him. Your apology to her will reverberate. Apologies create new neural pathways so you did that for her. It may - and most likely will - affect how she treats her children if she ever has children or affect how she treats those around her. Because you taught her how to apologize when you’re wrong. That’s a very, very meaningful lesson. (((hugs)))
She was and still is sexualized by her father but only she knows to what extent. I have a very difficult time crossing that compassionate bridge with you though. You are a bigger person than I. I’m not inclined to give a fk about their problems or I’d have to extend that compassionate understanding to the monster himself who was also abused by his strange and sickening parents. I won’t let myself go there. It’s my survival instinct kicked into high gear.
I think we can have compassion and still recognize how harmful they are--how diseased and wrong. I would never invite any of them over for coffee. I just--it made me reflect on how we are outcome driven society. More reactive than proactive. Let's say Trump had parties where he would have Ivanka perform fellatio for men when she was six years old, then more sexual stuffs as she grew older. Now she is all fucked up and it shows. We see how fucked up she is and now we want nothing to do with her. She is broken. She is damaged. I get it but I really wish we could be more of a society that works to ensure Ivanka's are never made... who knows what she may have been as a person without that kind of nasty influence?
I would love to be in a society that worked to ensure this never happened, but throughout history, the rich and powerful have never had their base impulses checked, and in fact a whole ecosystem emerges to service this depravity.
Legal structures seem to struggle to constrain this.
I (and I suspect most of your followers) would welcome this, but the powerful are truly near untouchable.
Very, very true and well said. Until the people who prey on society can somehow be checked without damaging personal freedom as a whole, we may never get there. I can't help but feel a bit helpless about it all.
You are an awesome person, Alicia. I can't even imagine what you have gone through, but you made it. I think you may be on to something with fugly's children. There is a lot of disfunction in that family.
I’m right there with you. Having been sexually abused as a child by my father, my thought was that she finally had a way to put some distance between herself and him. She and her husband though, as you say, have their own issues to atone for.
When I broke off all contact with my sociopath mother, I got the same BS. Oh she’s your mother. She’s the mother who starved me. She’s the mother who humiliated me. she’s the mother who sent me up to be raped by a drunk that she rent a room out to and the only reason he didn’t is cause I ran and locked myself in my room. She’s the mother who would do anything for a dollar and use her kids to do it so I get it, and she’s 100 years old and she still a sociopath
Nope. I’m not having it. I had my own horror stories, and Ivanka could easily walk away from it all at any point in her life. She didn’t ever have to fear loss of health, homelessness and hunger. She had access to good schooling—with high-end perks.
Who says she isn’t helping her disgusting father? Kushner is in the thick of it, orchestrating complicated money moves, aiding and abetting The Serial Criminal.
I have only so much emotional energy, and Ivanka-the-Snake doesn’t deserve any of it. She’d laugh at you for suggesting this…and because she probably is a sociopath, she would use it against you. There is a terrific little book about sociopaths: “Nasty People.”
While Iran is sending armed drones now that Trump & Netanyahu’s BS antics have escalated to war, remember that Ivanka and Jared have blood on their hands, along with Diaper Don. They should be held accountable, not pitied.
But, to your point, I offer this link. Trump Smut…but Ivanka chose to stay in the picture:
She was groomed and saying she stayed because she wanted to is like when people asking why women stay with violent abusers like my mom did for so many years. I also don't think it is so easy to walk away even if you have money. It took me forever to even say my dad was abusive without feeling guilty about it. I still labor under the pain and guilt of even having to make the choice to leave.
Did you ever watch game of Thrones? There was this one character who had been abused to the point that his captor made him refer himself as Reek. When the man's sister came to save him from the cage his abductor placed him in, the victim willingly went back into it and screamed, "My name is Reek!"
When I was girl I tried to speak on my molestation to someone they asked, "Why did you stay--you must have liked it if you stayed..."
I was, at the time of my molestation, six years old. I said as much, "Still, you could have run away. You stayed, you must have liked it."
Her response made me never speak up about that again until right now.
People can be trained to stay in their cages, or as the old adage goes, if you train an elephant when it is young to stay in place using a rope, you won't need the rope anymore when the elephant is an adult. There is a picture of Ivanka as young as 12 years old with both her dad and Epstein. There are other of her as a girl where she looks traumatized to me in her eyes.
You are right, who she is today as a woman, yeah, she would laugh in my face if I said such things to her. Doesn't alter the fact she may have been repeatedly rape as girl by a man prone to rape women and girls.
Trump is a monster, look at how he has harmed America--imagine him being your dad. We can hate what she does and still acknowledged Trump was likely monstrous to her.
Most narcissistic people and sociopaths were victimized as kids, and instead of doing as some do, and trying to heal and self-reflect, people like Ivanka turn their rage towards society, who they feel abandoned them. When they do act out they suffer consequences, but I almost always will acknowledge what made them that way. It is not an excuse, it is a reason. she still must pay for the harm she causes.
It was reported that when Don Jr. greeted his father at college in casual clothes and not a suit and tie when he came to pick him up from college, that Trump punched him in the face. It was likely not the first time he did that.
She was likely trained as a gurl to accept Trump's touch even if she loathed it, now she is the untied elephant. Grooming is grooming whether you are a poor or a rich victim. As I said earlier, I can empathize with her being raised by a rapey criminal monster and still think she needs to pay for her crimes. Wouldn't want to know her in real life.
In other words, none of this is pass, it is just me understanding the nature of the beast. A lot of evil is made, not born and they tend to look the same to the untrained eye.
You are spot on here. What an evil monster that person was to say you must have liked it. How incredibly sick. That was abuse on top of the abuse you already endured. I hope you don’t have to see this person anymore and if it was a person with any kind of authority, I hope you report them. I can’t get over how awful that was. I’m sorry you had to experience that. I’m sorry you had to experience all of it. (((hugs)))
Thank you, Deborah. I was horrified. This happened when I was in High School, and I was just opening up to tell people about it. It was a fellow student I had grown to trust. To say I was shocked by her response would be an understatement. It hardly ever want to talk about such things even now. Being in therapy has made me open up a bit more about it. What is most angering is opening up to family who would tell me, "Yeah, we figured something was going on..." and all I can think is, and you did nothing? I know maybe the reaction isn't fair, I mean, what could they do? There is this anger you feel, like, you were abandoned, but you have to channel it or it destroys you. Hugs back (((hugs)))
Thank you for your article, and for your deep insight. The ignorance in our society not only perpetuates the abuse, it punishes the survivors. I’m informed and enlightened by you sharing.
Epigenetics are greatly under appreciated, but there are some studies that suggest long term generational dysfunction can change the genetic profile of offspring. This may contribute to making them at least more prone to phobias, ADHD, obesity, autism, and sometimes very aberrant behavior. The environment the child is raised in is another contributing factor to their outcomes. There’s nothing to suggest that every person who has undergone this will be aberrant, but it is at least suggested that they are more prone.
Science is just beginning to understand what it takes to create a mutant sociopath like Trump, and if we are to battle monsters, we should attempt to understand them. Maybe one day we can understand enough to prevent them from developing, and save the next generation of children from their pathology.
Epigenetics -- interesting--many women on my mom's side of the family have this rare RA I suffer from. Is there an abuse component? Would love to see if there are connections.
"Science is just beginning to understand what it takes to create a mutant sociopath like Trump, and if we are to battle monsters, we should attempt to understand them. Maybe one day we can understand enough to prevent them from developing, and save the next generation of children from their pathology."
Agreed--I would love to eventually see a world where people aren't so abused they inflict that same abuse on others. I want to see the pattern stop.
There are two studies I’m aware of. One from the Danish Winter Famine of 1942, horrific conditions, Nazi terror, rape as a weapon of war. The study tracked 1000 children who were born either during or right after the occupation and starvation, and they found some disturbingly insightful data points. The children had multiple times the propensity for phobias, learning disabilities, insomnia, obesity, and neurodegenerative conditions. One fascinating note, males seemed to be afflicted most during the pre-natal trauma state of the mother, females more so in early post natal and childhood. That suggests there might be some additional protections against genetic changes afforded during the amniotic state of the female children as compared to males. It might also explain why so many of the abused becoming abusers themselves are men.
Another study tracked the family lineage of survivors of the Holocaust and they found some of the same trauma bound changes that were carried over into later and later generations. Almost as if the trauma was so deep that at a seemingly genetic level there was an imprint upon the DNA. It will take some more serious study to identify which if any genes are affected, and brain scans of survivors to see how an altered genetic disposition may affect future behavior or manifest itself in symptoms.
There are lots of variables to the scarce data available, but it’s a fascination of mine, and I’ve been intrigued about what it might tell us about those who have suffered abuse and the abuser. It might be the key to unlocking a way to help survivors, and perhaps even a way to prevent abusers from ever developing. A fellow can dream.
Thank you for sharing your story, that takes courage. I agree with your article, and a key thing to notice is that yes, all his children are monsters, Ivanka took her opportunity in one of the court cases as an exit. Now Trump's son's have continued to illustrate the behind the scenes narcissism, drug abuse, and other illicit activities on a daily basis. Just put a DEA agent as security detail for Donny Jr. and It would be very easy to get a cocaine conviction, just saying. But then you see Jared Kirschner working with Trump in what can be viewed as Logan Act violations so "how far removed" is she truly from the ongoing criminal organizations of the family that has harmed her? It's hard because the abuse is abhorrent, but there continues to be complacency from her family in recidivism so It becomes, "I'm sorry but you are committing crimes as well," they don't offset in Ivanka's case. I think Ivanka would receive support if she was outspoken about familial abuse and had a stance like Mary L. Trump. like you mentioned, my compassion for this crime family and Ivanka particularly, has a very limited scope i.e. SA is inexcusable.
Oh agreed. I hope her crimes are prosecuted just like her dad's but I have a real hankering to see Donnie go down--he is the catalysts for lot of this fucked up bullshit. I want to finally see a man like Trump go down.
"Just put a DEA agent as security detail for Donny Jr. and It would be very easy to get a cocaine conviction, just saying." Damn I would love to see that. I want to see a flying tackle and everything, like on one of those cop shows.
As a survivor of childhood sexual abuse I agree with you on how it affects a person. However, assuming that she was sexually abused is a little over the top. Nobody knows what went on in her relationship with her father. I honestly don’t think she was. I don’t feel sorry for any of his kids.
Numerous jokes are made about how Trump must have had it on with daddy with lot of victim-blaming language that is concerning to me. There are some pictures that show him being way too sexual in his touching and holding. Still, it is all supposition until these ideas are verified. We know Trump is a monster who sexually abused women--I doubt he was kind to any of them, so yeah, my heart goes to who they were as children, not who they are as adults.
As a father of two adult daughters and the grandfather of four girls, this is the most disturbing evil and criminal atrocity I’ve read about Donald Trump… ever. I’ve known for decades that Donald Trump is an evil, merciless bastard. (I’m a New Yorker and contemporary of Donald Trump). When he lied about “losing hundreds of friends on 9/11)”.. and then in the next breath this slimy toad bragged that “now my building is the tallest in New York City”. Well, I thought, naïvely in hindsight, that this lie was the vilest and most pernicious thing this toad named Donald Trump, was capable. But… what you write… what you write… is beyond my comprehension.
Not is no disputing that and I agree. She is a criminal and must go to jail for her crimes. I am only remarking about how awful it would be to have a dad like Trump--that is the part I empathize with. You don't have to like a person you feel sorry for.
From a psychological & empathetic perspective you are right. Sadly, children of narcissists are groomed & programmed from birth to serve the narcissist. Additionally, they are incentivized in their formative years to be puppets and highly narcissistic themselves, and it just keeps going.
Due to having their reality distorted their entire youth, it takes a long time, a lot of strength, some good luck, internal goodness & fortitude to escape most of it, and rise above, so much love to all who do or are trying.
I too feel pity for any child that was, is or will be trapped by having a parent who supposed to nurture them be narcissist, and worst of all, a malignant one like trump. That makes it all the harder to escape and be free of it, which is something Ivanka will never know until maybe she has an epiphany as a very old and regretful lady..
Thank you, Sam. I was really hoping to see your professional view on this. I always value your input on these matters. I always hope people on a bad path can wise up and self-correct but it often takes a ton of hard knocks.
Most welcome Alicia. Unfortunately, once someone crosses into the pathological level, stats say few to none ever really change, even with the hardest of knocks. They are already so broken that hard knocks just makes them go underground and they get better at hiding who they are. On the bright side, once one accepts that truth, it becomes clear you should stop wasting any energy or time on them, not of your choosing.
Agreed. It is like I keep saying--I get why she is the way she is, but that won't mean I would want her in my life. My compassion only can envelope so much, and yeah, I learned that the hard way trying to save people who didn't want to save themselves. My only hope to recognize someone in the same fear and pain cycle as she is when they are young enough to be helped and maybe help them before they are set into stone.
OK. You said it. She and her brothers ARE tragic figures. Yet, I cant feel sorry for any of these people. They've been raised to grift, lie, and steal. If they had been raised by a nice midwestern family in Iowa, they would (hopefully) have turned out to be something else other than the worthless mini-monsters that they are. Money cant buy class, common sense, or integrity. It can buy some world class counseling, though. I would guess that Ivanka and her brothers dont even understand WHY they should find a therapist. You made me think, Alicia. Thanks! ✌️
We hate them for their actions and they should pay for them, but l do think in a diifferent environment they may have been better people. We will never know.
Indeed we will never know. That’s the tragedy of it all. I cannot begin to imagine what a warped upbringing they must’ve had. Every family (EVERY FAMILY) is dysfunctional to a degree but these unfortunate souls got more than their share. Are they accountable for their actions as adults? Yes. But I hope I never get to the point where I can’t at least acknowledge that they probably never had a chance.
Lee, you are right--I truly think all families are dysfunctional to a degree because all families are headed by people with flaws. Even good parents trying to do the right things the right ways can screw up.
I know you get it, if anyone does. And if good parents doing their best, despite their flaws, can still raise flawed children…, well, you see where I’m going with this.
Exactly. They're broken people and broken people tend to break other people. I feel bad for all of them. They're obviously miserable. It's no wonder they behave like miserable people.
Precisely, Robin Williams once said "Be kind to awful people, they are the ones who need it most." I agree although I do not often live that principle. It is hard.
SO hard.
He's right. I stick with, don't become the monster that you despise.
Maybe if they all moved to Des Moines for a year or so. 🤣🤣
:-D
Agree. If she had shunned him, and stayed out of the white house during his administration, I would be more inclined to be kind to her, but she rode that ride after buying the ticket.
Agreed--and I don't think being compassionate to what she suffered is a kindness just an acknowledgement.
Agree. I can pity them but only when they truly get the hell out of my sight and nowhere next to power. Ever.
I’m with you on this, however, I do not feel sorry for her. Yes, she had a bad father. However, her father had a bad father and it probably goes much further back in the genetic line.
Nevertheless, what is Ivanka doing to clean up her own act while she a married to another sleezball who also had a bad that I think was pardoned from prison or had sentence commuted by the crazy pumpkin. I have my own story of abuse. But, that is in the past and I work hard to exorcise the ghosts of my past and be a better person.
That is all we can try to do, be better--but yes, almost all abusers were once victims. I suppose my larger POV is that we can recognize ppl were abused, empathize and still hold people accountable for their actions.
Exactly.
This was a point I was going to make about marrying a monster. Many of us who were abused go through a series of abusive relationships until we figure out what is drawing us to them and break the pattern. But the dysfunctional dynamics are hard to see if life is pretty good. Many of us just struggle and keep asking why until we make our lives better. She probably never had to figure out why things kept going wrong.
It seems a pretty good life May insulate one from life itself.
So true.
No need to reply to the message I sent you about my sister. Yes, there may have been monsters in your life but you can still read Voltaire in French. I was once able to read some Kafka in German so know the joy of reading one in the language they wrote in.
Thanks for the note, Jim. It's amazing we can break through to our best lives.
BTW. I'm still getting through my morning emails and looking forward to your note.🙏🏻💙
OMG. Girl you nailed this. We have something in common. After my abuse, I protected my younger sisters from an early age (10) too. To the point they had no idea and were even outraged by the truth.
Also, I think you turned it into a super power like I did, especially in writings.
In my novel Pinot Noir, I modeled the girl trapped in a tower to be sold to the highest bidder after Ivanka. I've always been surprised no one picked up on that.
"Imagine, if you will, a dad who may have not only done non-fatherly things to you, but he may have passed you around like candy to folks like, I dunno, Epstein.
A more than likely scenario—I don’t know too many people who would grow up normal after that.
There is also the golden cage dilemma, being perceived as beautiful, rich and entitled with no real problems—who would listen to her screams about abuse?
Being raped on golden sheets as a child is still rape."
"OMG. Girl you nailed this. We have something in common. After my abuse, I protected my younger sisters from an early age (10) too. To the point they had no idea and were even outraged by the truth."
I think that is why we can see this. Look at the picture of her in the silver dress. Trump's arm is around her--her hands at her side, no smile--captured pain in her eyes.
She does not like his touch being here, but what can she do? Yell? scream? She'd look insane.
That is the horror of that kind of abuse. How it mentally traps you and you are forced to smile through a ton of pain. I will bet money he abused her from a very, very young age.
I always knew there was a reason I felt a kind of kindship with you. Love you and thank you.
Love you too.
And I agree, we don’t have to ever like our abusers. My experience was to finally stop blaming others and realize I was in control. It took lots of therapy but that seemed to be the turning point for me. It felt empowering.
Big hug to you my fierce sis 🥰
Thank you for your post. My earliest memory is from when I was about 2 years old & felt a horrible pain in my vagina although I had no idea what to call it…to this day, I’m not sure if the pain was caused by my father or a cousin who went on sexually abusing me until I was twelve.
I was and still am a dysfunctional woman who had two beautiful children but couldn’t be a good mother to them. My daughter has written me out of her life & won’t speak to me, my son is my rock. I don’t blame her, I was a neglectful mother & I own that 100%. This is what can happen to women who have been sexualized.
Sandra, I understand and feel your pain. I think my father wanted to be good as well. He grew up in a loving but strict evangelical household and was disavowed by his father, who was a deacon at his church. He was a charming, at times even fun man, but he exerted violent control over his lovers, be they male or female. It left scars that made it difficult for me to function for many years in my youth--we eventually learn and fly straight if it is in us to do so. Sending love to you.
Thank you for your understanding & love. I don’t blame her for what she felt she had to do for herself to heal from my toxicity & I support her. The one thing I cling to is that she’s never tried to alienate her 3 children from me; that is a balm to my heart.
I am glad to hear that...
I understand your pain but it will never go away.
I’m going to be 75 in 2 weeks & I know it will always be with me.
I’m so sorry for what you had to endure and what you’re still going through. It has to be hard to be estranged from your daughter. It sounds like you have put a lot of thought and energy into what happened and the mistakes you made and you should be proud of yourself for that. Everyone makes mistakes to one degree or another. No matter how bad, the willingness to acknowledge them and be sorry about them is what is important. And you’ve done that. That’s gold.
well said.
Thank you Deborah, I appreciate your kind words & support. My heart breaks every day because she isn’t in my life but I do understand that she feels that her choices are necessary. As I said before, my son is my rock, he is still a loving presence in my life.
I’m so happy you have him. Your apology to her will reverberate. Apologies create new neural pathways so you did that for her. It may - and most likely will - affect how she treats her children if she ever has children or affect how she treats those around her. Because you taught her how to apologize when you’re wrong. That’s a very, very meaningful lesson. (((hugs)))
😭😭😭🫂🫂🫂
She was and still is sexualized by her father but only she knows to what extent. I have a very difficult time crossing that compassionate bridge with you though. You are a bigger person than I. I’m not inclined to give a fk about their problems or I’d have to extend that compassionate understanding to the monster himself who was also abused by his strange and sickening parents. I won’t let myself go there. It’s my survival instinct kicked into high gear.
I think we can have compassion and still recognize how harmful they are--how diseased and wrong. I would never invite any of them over for coffee. I just--it made me reflect on how we are outcome driven society. More reactive than proactive. Let's say Trump had parties where he would have Ivanka perform fellatio for men when she was six years old, then more sexual stuffs as she grew older. Now she is all fucked up and it shows. We see how fucked up she is and now we want nothing to do with her. She is broken. She is damaged. I get it but I really wish we could be more of a society that works to ensure Ivanka's are never made... who knows what she may have been as a person without that kind of nasty influence?
I would love to be in a society that worked to ensure this never happened, but throughout history, the rich and powerful have never had their base impulses checked, and in fact a whole ecosystem emerges to service this depravity.
Legal structures seem to struggle to constrain this.
I (and I suspect most of your followers) would welcome this, but the powerful are truly near untouchable.
Very, very true and well said. Until the people who prey on society can somehow be checked without damaging personal freedom as a whole, we may never get there. I can't help but feel a bit helpless about it all.
Your comment could have come directly from my brain!
You are an awesome person, Alicia. I can't even imagine what you have gone through, but you made it. I think you may be on to something with fugly's children. There is a lot of disfunction in that family.
Oh yeah, I would not want to be a fly on that wall, and thank you so much, Charlotte... (((hugs)))
You are welcome, Alicia. I would be willing to bet there is a lot more about that family than anyone knows and not all of it good.
I’m right there with you. Having been sexually abused as a child by my father, my thought was that she finally had a way to put some distance between herself and him. She and her husband though, as you say, have their own issues to atone for.
Indeed, and as she seems to be the smartest Trump, maybe she can figure out a way to heal her own wounds and become a better human being.
When I broke off all contact with my sociopath mother, I got the same BS. Oh she’s your mother. She’s the mother who starved me. She’s the mother who humiliated me. she’s the mother who sent me up to be raped by a drunk that she rent a room out to and the only reason he didn’t is cause I ran and locked myself in my room. She’s the mother who would do anything for a dollar and use her kids to do it so I get it, and she’s 100 years old and she still a sociopath
Nope. I’m not having it. I had my own horror stories, and Ivanka could easily walk away from it all at any point in her life. She didn’t ever have to fear loss of health, homelessness and hunger. She had access to good schooling—with high-end perks.
Who says she isn’t helping her disgusting father? Kushner is in the thick of it, orchestrating complicated money moves, aiding and abetting The Serial Criminal.
I have only so much emotional energy, and Ivanka-the-Snake doesn’t deserve any of it. She’d laugh at you for suggesting this…and because she probably is a sociopath, she would use it against you. There is a terrific little book about sociopaths: “Nasty People.”
While Iran is sending armed drones now that Trump & Netanyahu’s BS antics have escalated to war, remember that Ivanka and Jared have blood on their hands, along with Diaper Don. They should be held accountable, not pitied.
But, to your point, I offer this link. Trump Smut…but Ivanka chose to stay in the picture:
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-ivanka-naked-sexism-miles-taylor-book-nyt-anonymous-1809187
She was groomed and saying she stayed because she wanted to is like when people asking why women stay with violent abusers like my mom did for so many years. I also don't think it is so easy to walk away even if you have money. It took me forever to even say my dad was abusive without feeling guilty about it. I still labor under the pain and guilt of even having to make the choice to leave.
Did you ever watch game of Thrones? There was this one character who had been abused to the point that his captor made him refer himself as Reek. When the man's sister came to save him from the cage his abductor placed him in, the victim willingly went back into it and screamed, "My name is Reek!"
When I was girl I tried to speak on my molestation to someone they asked, "Why did you stay--you must have liked it if you stayed..."
I was, at the time of my molestation, six years old. I said as much, "Still, you could have run away. You stayed, you must have liked it."
Her response made me never speak up about that again until right now.
People can be trained to stay in their cages, or as the old adage goes, if you train an elephant when it is young to stay in place using a rope, you won't need the rope anymore when the elephant is an adult. There is a picture of Ivanka as young as 12 years old with both her dad and Epstein. There are other of her as a girl where she looks traumatized to me in her eyes.
You are right, who she is today as a woman, yeah, she would laugh in my face if I said such things to her. Doesn't alter the fact she may have been repeatedly rape as girl by a man prone to rape women and girls.
Trump is a monster, look at how he has harmed America--imagine him being your dad. We can hate what she does and still acknowledged Trump was likely monstrous to her.
Most narcissistic people and sociopaths were victimized as kids, and instead of doing as some do, and trying to heal and self-reflect, people like Ivanka turn their rage towards society, who they feel abandoned them. When they do act out they suffer consequences, but I almost always will acknowledge what made them that way. It is not an excuse, it is a reason. she still must pay for the harm she causes.
It was reported that when Don Jr. greeted his father at college in casual clothes and not a suit and tie when he came to pick him up from college, that Trump punched him in the face. It was likely not the first time he did that.
She was likely trained as a gurl to accept Trump's touch even if she loathed it, now she is the untied elephant. Grooming is grooming whether you are a poor or a rich victim. As I said earlier, I can empathize with her being raised by a rapey criminal monster and still think she needs to pay for her crimes. Wouldn't want to know her in real life.
In other words, none of this is pass, it is just me understanding the nature of the beast. A lot of evil is made, not born and they tend to look the same to the untrained eye.
You are spot on here. What an evil monster that person was to say you must have liked it. How incredibly sick. That was abuse on top of the abuse you already endured. I hope you don’t have to see this person anymore and if it was a person with any kind of authority, I hope you report them. I can’t get over how awful that was. I’m sorry you had to experience that. I’m sorry you had to experience all of it. (((hugs)))
Thank you, Deborah. I was horrified. This happened when I was in High School, and I was just opening up to tell people about it. It was a fellow student I had grown to trust. To say I was shocked by her response would be an understatement. It hardly ever want to talk about such things even now. Being in therapy has made me open up a bit more about it. What is most angering is opening up to family who would tell me, "Yeah, we figured something was going on..." and all I can think is, and you did nothing? I know maybe the reaction isn't fair, I mean, what could they do? There is this anger you feel, like, you were abandoned, but you have to channel it or it destroys you. Hugs back (((hugs)))
Thank you for your article, and for your deep insight. The ignorance in our society not only perpetuates the abuse, it punishes the survivors. I’m informed and enlightened by you sharing.
Epigenetics are greatly under appreciated, but there are some studies that suggest long term generational dysfunction can change the genetic profile of offspring. This may contribute to making them at least more prone to phobias, ADHD, obesity, autism, and sometimes very aberrant behavior. The environment the child is raised in is another contributing factor to their outcomes. There’s nothing to suggest that every person who has undergone this will be aberrant, but it is at least suggested that they are more prone.
Science is just beginning to understand what it takes to create a mutant sociopath like Trump, and if we are to battle monsters, we should attempt to understand them. Maybe one day we can understand enough to prevent them from developing, and save the next generation of children from their pathology.
Epigenetics -- interesting--many women on my mom's side of the family have this rare RA I suffer from. Is there an abuse component? Would love to see if there are connections.
"Science is just beginning to understand what it takes to create a mutant sociopath like Trump, and if we are to battle monsters, we should attempt to understand them. Maybe one day we can understand enough to prevent them from developing, and save the next generation of children from their pathology."
Agreed--I would love to eventually see a world where people aren't so abused they inflict that same abuse on others. I want to see the pattern stop.
There are two studies I’m aware of. One from the Danish Winter Famine of 1942, horrific conditions, Nazi terror, rape as a weapon of war. The study tracked 1000 children who were born either during or right after the occupation and starvation, and they found some disturbingly insightful data points. The children had multiple times the propensity for phobias, learning disabilities, insomnia, obesity, and neurodegenerative conditions. One fascinating note, males seemed to be afflicted most during the pre-natal trauma state of the mother, females more so in early post natal and childhood. That suggests there might be some additional protections against genetic changes afforded during the amniotic state of the female children as compared to males. It might also explain why so many of the abused becoming abusers themselves are men.
Another study tracked the family lineage of survivors of the Holocaust and they found some of the same trauma bound changes that were carried over into later and later generations. Almost as if the trauma was so deep that at a seemingly genetic level there was an imprint upon the DNA. It will take some more serious study to identify which if any genes are affected, and brain scans of survivors to see how an altered genetic disposition may affect future behavior or manifest itself in symptoms.
There are lots of variables to the scarce data available, but it’s a fascination of mine, and I’ve been intrigued about what it might tell us about those who have suffered abuse and the abuser. It might be the key to unlocking a way to help survivors, and perhaps even a way to prevent abusers from ever developing. A fellow can dream.
Well said.
Thank you.
Thank you for sharing your story, that takes courage. I agree with your article, and a key thing to notice is that yes, all his children are monsters, Ivanka took her opportunity in one of the court cases as an exit. Now Trump's son's have continued to illustrate the behind the scenes narcissism, drug abuse, and other illicit activities on a daily basis. Just put a DEA agent as security detail for Donny Jr. and It would be very easy to get a cocaine conviction, just saying. But then you see Jared Kirschner working with Trump in what can be viewed as Logan Act violations so "how far removed" is she truly from the ongoing criminal organizations of the family that has harmed her? It's hard because the abuse is abhorrent, but there continues to be complacency from her family in recidivism so It becomes, "I'm sorry but you are committing crimes as well," they don't offset in Ivanka's case. I think Ivanka would receive support if she was outspoken about familial abuse and had a stance like Mary L. Trump. like you mentioned, my compassion for this crime family and Ivanka particularly, has a very limited scope i.e. SA is inexcusable.
Oh agreed. I hope her crimes are prosecuted just like her dad's but I have a real hankering to see Donnie go down--he is the catalysts for lot of this fucked up bullshit. I want to finally see a man like Trump go down.
"Just put a DEA agent as security detail for Donny Jr. and It would be very easy to get a cocaine conviction, just saying." Damn I would love to see that. I want to see a flying tackle and everything, like on one of those cop shows.
bahahaha ESPN would have re-runs for decades, putting it amongst top sports highlights!
As a survivor of childhood sexual abuse I agree with you on how it affects a person. However, assuming that she was sexually abused is a little over the top. Nobody knows what went on in her relationship with her father. I honestly don’t think she was. I don’t feel sorry for any of his kids.
Numerous jokes are made about how Trump must have had it on with daddy with lot of victim-blaming language that is concerning to me. There are some pictures that show him being way too sexual in his touching and holding. Still, it is all supposition until these ideas are verified. We know Trump is a monster who sexually abused women--I doubt he was kind to any of them, so yeah, my heart goes to who they were as children, not who they are as adults.
As a father of two adult daughters and the grandfather of four girls, this is the most disturbing evil and criminal atrocity I’ve read about Donald Trump… ever. I’ve known for decades that Donald Trump is an evil, merciless bastard. (I’m a New Yorker and contemporary of Donald Trump). When he lied about “losing hundreds of friends on 9/11)”.. and then in the next breath this slimy toad bragged that “now my building is the tallest in New York City”. Well, I thought, naïvely in hindsight, that this lie was the vilest and most pernicious thing this toad named Donald Trump, was capable. But… what you write… what you write… is beyond my comprehension.
Indeed, I just think he is such a nasty person--little wonder his family wants nothing to do with him. Only slimy opportunists.
Nope, she is a grifter, just like her father and husband!
Not is no disputing that and I agree. She is a criminal and must go to jail for her crimes. I am only remarking about how awful it would be to have a dad like Trump--that is the part I empathize with. You don't have to like a person you feel sorry for.
And look closely at their eyes. They both obviously wear blue eye contacts now.
Interesting--never noted that before.
She probably was only about 12 or 13 there.
Yep--that is the part that breaks my heart.