Well said! The Golden Rule is what should be going up in classrooms across the Nation, not their version of the 10 Commandments (which none of them abide by anyway) since we truly want a better world for our kids. Wishing you the best surgical outcome, speedy recovery and a fabulous future! 💙
Shire, thank you, beautiful soul! I sincerely appreciate you guys! Big hugs!
And yes, half of them can't even recite what all are, and if they can, they don't follow them one wit. They also elect leaders who do not. Their commandments are empty—tools to fool the fools.
I'm all for putting the Ten Commandments up everywhere. along with pledges like The Boy Scout and Girl Scout Oaths and Laws. Add in Oaths of Office and Police/Military Oaths and Service Laws. Then let's start following them -- calling out their misuse and abuse -- and being accountable for living up to them. You first, Conservative Nihilists. Get Well quickly, Alicia! : )
They've made it pretty clear that rules and laws are for everybody except themselves! However, I do second the motion for Alicia to get well quickly, it's all hands on deck! 💙
Jesus is a good model of unconditional love. We can emulate him. Normal folks don't run into burning buildings or towards gunfire. Since "Toddlers Are Assholes," most children wouldn't be alive without unconditional love -- it exists in folks who know how proper adults are supposed to act. Like everything important, it needs to be defined -- what does it mean to each of us? It has limits. It has to be accepted by the recipient and reciprocated, otherwise -- ?
As an atheist, I would have to disagree with the Jesus is unconditional love thing--especially as interpreted by the thousands of religions that exist that use violence and force in Jesus' name to achieve their end goals. And I think my point is being missed. Living things have life conditions. Don't beat me, don't rape me, don't kill me, don't steal from me. When I was young, my mom ended up in a battered woman shelter--too many women still 'loved their abusers' and used this model to do it. I know he is hateful, but I love him so. The unconditional love model makes all of this okay because it sets no limits on treatment. Saying, "Do not beat me/rape me/kill me" is setting a condition. My point is that it is okay to say, " I will not accept being treated poorly even if I do love you." Anything else is self-abuse.
Ah, I see—thanks for clarifying. We can't trust the concept until people can be trusted to treat people who love with kindness. Young people should be taught that self-preservation is okay. Too many see love as suffering, and it can be, but with limits. I love you, too sis, and that I say truly!
Oh, yeah! I get what you're saying, Alicia. I hear and agree with you. All I'm saying is that the only way to define that thing that we do for others that may be against our own self interest is well defined as "unconditional love." Is it a good thing to practice in the reality of understanding that there is no "ultimate reward of a heaven?" Nope! PS - I like following Jesus as an historical figure -- just wish his believers would actually try to live his example. And it appears that you are on the road to recovery! Feisty as ever! : )
I know many brave men and women who would do the same. I see that more as bravery than anything else, as these same people often have enough self-esteem not to allow themselves to abuse or be abused in the name of unconditional love.
By the time you read this, I pray you are comfortable and your healing is under way. Being old, I do think about my legacy, and 'she loved' would be my preferred inscription on a tombstone. I also am a fan of the many NDE 'woowoo' channels on YouTube. Those who have crossed over and returned almost universally report blissful feelings of unconditional love coming their way, so much so that many say they would have preferred to stay and not come back. Trying to get that from any human being will fail. Eric Fromm describes the main components of love as Care, Respect, Responsibility and Knowledge. When I treat others and myself with those things, I succeed in loving, whether I like them or not. Tall order. But I have a measure which tells me where I am falling short. Peace and blessings. x
Oh indeed. I look at it this way--I love everyone with a humanity-type love. I don't want to see anyone in pain--not even a Trumper or a Trump. That is why I wrote how I have compassion for Ivanka even though I probably wouldn't like her as a person. But you are right; in this world, we must fear the machinations of people with bad intentions and guard accordingly to have happy, healthy lives, and we needn't feel bad or ashamed for having to do so. Thanks for your lovely comment and well wishes--you rock! Thank you!
I'm sending a prayer that your surgery goes well, that you heal quickly and are better for having endured the surgery, and that you find the partner, if that's something you need, who shares your beliefs, is there when you need him/her, and makes you laugh. Be well.
I offer no advice as I’ve learned I’m not an expert on anything and there is uncertainty and unknowable variables in everything I’m aware of. However, I always remember what I read about the Buddha’s teachings. He told the listeners that he was not there to instruct on what they SHOULD do to become enlightened and and become free of suffering. He said he was there t share what worked for him but everyone must walk their own path. Thus, I want to share with you my thoughts and feelings on two issues. The first is about your surgery and the second in unconditional love. Again, this is what works for me but is NOT advice.
I had surgery in my heart about a year ago. I was suffering from Atrial Flutter which is similar to Atrial Fabulation but this occurs in the right auricle instead of the left. I alway fall back on the words of Mark Twain who said he experienced many horrible things in his life, some that actually happened. He learned that worrying about an outcome produced great suffering so he gave up worry.
, I have worked hard to be tolerant of the imperfections of others. However, I have learned I have some boundaries and if crossed, tolerance can be difficult.
I’m not going to tell you I know your surgery will go fine. How could I know that? But I think in terms of probability. If this surgery didn’t have a good probability for success, I believe any good surgeon would share that with you and fear and worry will not change anything.
"I have worked hard to be tolerant of others' imperfections. However, I have learned that I have some boundaries, and if crossed, tolerance can be difficult."
This is precisely the crux of my message: no one should allow themselves to suffer on the grand idea that their love is unconditional. You have the right to self-love and boundaries. I have heard, "But I love him!" far too often from women with Black eyes. I would not tell people what they should do, but I would say that no one should allow themselves to be abused for the sake of a philosophical idea. I pose this to make people think about what they mean when they say "unconditional love..."
Hell, I ain't no expert. Lord knows I struggle daily with these ideas--but I don't use the concept of love to rule over other people or make them bend to my whims. Part of freedom and lack of worry is recognizing and side-stepping chains, which is the gist of what I am saying.
As for my worry--I have a huge fear of surrendering my body to people I don't know. I have to trust their expertise and their intentions, and my trauma wounds make it very difficult to trust anyone fully--so, I would say I have a near phobia of going under--my heart rate elevates, and I tremble. I wouldn't say I like going under.
And meh—typos, smypos—I am sure I will have a few by the end of this comment. LOL.
I'll be anxiously awaiting to hear how you're doing! The Golden Rule is THE rule, baby! A rabbi once told me that is what Judaism is centered around...he said the rest is commentary. Be well. You Substack family is rooting for you! ❤️
As I do yours , I understand your worries I had them before my surgery but mine was on heart . You you will get through yours fast , and healthy . If you need anything just ask . Hugs and peace
Alicia Norman: First of all: Armando predicts that, post-surgery, post-healing, post-rehabilitation, Alicia Norman will be healthier and stronger. Alicia Norman is already a strong woman.
Let's not talk of end-days here. The nurse HAS to ask, because that question is part of the Hospital's risk-management requirement.
YOU will be fine.
I have no question.
NOW:
Speaking from loving Nancy, my light-and-love, for 53-years (51-years married), love is ALWAYS: (1) Love the other person in a way that builds the dignity and strength of BOTH parties; (2) Each party doing what helps her own and the partner's health and well-being; (3) Being honest AND gentle and considerate with BOTH PARTIES.
I think your video said it quite well.
Your voice and intonation show deep goodness in you and your values of love are right and beautiful.
No wonder I love our developing friendship!
YOU are a person WELL WORTH listening to, a person who is deeply good and thoughtful, a spiritual person.
OMG, big hugs to you! I missed your voice in the space, and I hope you are well! Please give Nancy and your lovely daughter big hugs from me! How is she doing, by the way? And how was Budapest? Thank you for the well wishes. I hope all the positivity flies into the ether and is regarded by any energy with a mind or ability or hear... :-D
"I hope all the positivity flies into the ether and is regarded by any energy with a mind or ability or hear."
As far as The Love-of-My-Life, she is doing quite well and is a happy, strong person.
Budapest, even under the illiberal democracy of Orban Victor (Hungarians put the family name first, so, I will follow their custom in speaking of Orban), yes, Budapest is a wondrous, beautiful place.
What inspired me most as Nancy and I dined at a café on the Danube riverfront was that at all hours of darkness, ALL HOURS, a woman, a child, a group of women, a little playful group of kids, could walk luxuriously and leisurely on the busy waterfront with no fear, no apprehension whatsoever, that anyone would bother them as the women or kids enjoyed themselves in conversation or play that Mother Nature INTENDED for the woman or child. They were completely safe.
For that reason ALONE, I could move to Budapest and not give a thought to politics.
Thank you, Kelly. I have thought about and struggled with it for years because it never felt right as an idea. I get what the message is trying to say, "Love me despite my imperfections..." but I think there is a better way to do this/say this.
I think if we look at love as a reciprocal feedback loop, then loving someone would mean loving them despite their flaws because we want them to do the same for us. When we push the idea that love should be and "is" a two-sided affair--as they say, love is an action... we know what we want, who we want, and what we can and desire to give. I think it is just a healthier way of looking at it and may help people have better relationships--or at least that is my fervent hope.
And thank you -- I just got a call from my doctor --I developed a welted rash from not being on my immunosuppressants, and they want to ensure I can have the surgery on Wednesday... SMDH.
I’m sorry you’re dealing with that, truly! I understand how bad the healthcare system is in this country. I’m a patient and an ex-medical worker. I understand your struggles. I truly hope you get great care, and that this doesn’t turn into a fiasco. I understand some about immune disorders. They’re not fun for people who have them, and they’re tricky to treat.
Keep your beautiful chin up, my friend! You’re doing great! ♥️♥️♥️
Thank you, Charles. I am told I will feel sick but have plenty of painkillers post-surgery--I'm not too fond of painkillers and hope I won't need them...
Well said! The Golden Rule is what should be going up in classrooms across the Nation, not their version of the 10 Commandments (which none of them abide by anyway) since we truly want a better world for our kids. Wishing you the best surgical outcome, speedy recovery and a fabulous future! 💙
Shire, thank you, beautiful soul! I sincerely appreciate you guys! Big hugs!
And yes, half of them can't even recite what all are, and if they can, they don't follow them one wit. They also elect leaders who do not. Their commandments are empty—tools to fool the fools.
I'm all for putting the Ten Commandments up everywhere. along with pledges like The Boy Scout and Girl Scout Oaths and Laws. Add in Oaths of Office and Police/Military Oaths and Service Laws. Then let's start following them -- calling out their misuse and abuse -- and being accountable for living up to them. You first, Conservative Nihilists. Get Well quickly, Alicia! : )
They've made it pretty clear that rules and laws are for everybody except themselves! However, I do second the motion for Alicia to get well quickly, it's all hands on deck! 💙
Unconditional love is only from Jesus. 🥰
Thank you!
🙏🏻💙
Jesus is a good model of unconditional love. We can emulate him. Normal folks don't run into burning buildings or towards gunfire. Since "Toddlers Are Assholes," most children wouldn't be alive without unconditional love -- it exists in folks who know how proper adults are supposed to act. Like everything important, it needs to be defined -- what does it mean to each of us? It has limits. It has to be accepted by the recipient and reciprocated, otherwise -- ?
As an atheist, I would have to disagree with the Jesus is unconditional love thing--especially as interpreted by the thousands of religions that exist that use violence and force in Jesus' name to achieve their end goals. And I think my point is being missed. Living things have life conditions. Don't beat me, don't rape me, don't kill me, don't steal from me. When I was young, my mom ended up in a battered woman shelter--too many women still 'loved their abusers' and used this model to do it. I know he is hateful, but I love him so. The unconditional love model makes all of this okay because it sets no limits on treatment. Saying, "Do not beat me/rape me/kill me" is setting a condition. My point is that it is okay to say, " I will not accept being treated poorly even if I do love you." Anything else is self-abuse.
Between you and me Alicia, I was being metaphorical and affirming your point that it’s only a fairytale so to speak.
Ah, I see—thanks for clarifying. We can't trust the concept until people can be trusted to treat people who love with kindness. Young people should be taught that self-preservation is okay. Too many see love as suffering, and it can be, but with limits. I love you, too sis, and that I say truly!
Unrealistic ideals are dangerous.
Oh, yeah! I get what you're saying, Alicia. I hear and agree with you. All I'm saying is that the only way to define that thing that we do for others that may be against our own self interest is well defined as "unconditional love." Is it a good thing to practice in the reality of understanding that there is no "ultimate reward of a heaven?" Nope! PS - I like following Jesus as an historical figure -- just wish his believers would actually try to live his example. And it appears that you are on the road to recovery! Feisty as ever! : )
Beautiful. I have one friend who is truly Christian with unconditional love able to separate it from all wrong doing.
I know a few heroes who would and have run in front of gunfire and into a burning building.
I am lacking in the former and like to think my natural response would be to protect others over myself.
I know many brave men and women who would do the same. I see that more as bravery than anything else, as these same people often have enough self-esteem not to allow themselves to abuse or be abused in the name of unconditional love.
Looking forward to seeing you on the far side of the surgery. Take care
Thank you, Geoff....
By the time you read this, I pray you are comfortable and your healing is under way. Being old, I do think about my legacy, and 'she loved' would be my preferred inscription on a tombstone. I also am a fan of the many NDE 'woowoo' channels on YouTube. Those who have crossed over and returned almost universally report blissful feelings of unconditional love coming their way, so much so that many say they would have preferred to stay and not come back. Trying to get that from any human being will fail. Eric Fromm describes the main components of love as Care, Respect, Responsibility and Knowledge. When I treat others and myself with those things, I succeed in loving, whether I like them or not. Tall order. But I have a measure which tells me where I am falling short. Peace and blessings. x
Oh indeed. I look at it this way--I love everyone with a humanity-type love. I don't want to see anyone in pain--not even a Trumper or a Trump. That is why I wrote how I have compassion for Ivanka even though I probably wouldn't like her as a person. But you are right; in this world, we must fear the machinations of people with bad intentions and guard accordingly to have happy, healthy lives, and we needn't feel bad or ashamed for having to do so. Thanks for your lovely comment and well wishes--you rock! Thank you!
I'm sending a prayer that your surgery goes well, that you heal quickly and are better for having endured the surgery, and that you find the partner, if that's something you need, who shares your beliefs, is there when you need him/her, and makes you laugh. Be well.
Big hugs to you Carol, what a wonderful comment! Thank you so much!
I offer no advice as I’ve learned I’m not an expert on anything and there is uncertainty and unknowable variables in everything I’m aware of. However, I always remember what I read about the Buddha’s teachings. He told the listeners that he was not there to instruct on what they SHOULD do to become enlightened and and become free of suffering. He said he was there t share what worked for him but everyone must walk their own path. Thus, I want to share with you my thoughts and feelings on two issues. The first is about your surgery and the second in unconditional love. Again, this is what works for me but is NOT advice.
I had surgery in my heart about a year ago. I was suffering from Atrial Flutter which is similar to Atrial Fabulation but this occurs in the right auricle instead of the left. I alway fall back on the words of Mark Twain who said he experienced many horrible things in his life, some that actually happened. He learned that worrying about an outcome produced great suffering so he gave up worry.
, I have worked hard to be tolerant of the imperfections of others. However, I have learned I have some boundaries and if crossed, tolerance can be difficult.
I’m not going to tell you I know your surgery will go fine. How could I know that? But I think in terms of probability. If this surgery didn’t have a good probability for success, I believe any good surgeon would share that with you and fear and worry will not change anything.
Forgive my typos. As I said I’m highly imperfect. 😀
"I have worked hard to be tolerant of others' imperfections. However, I have learned that I have some boundaries, and if crossed, tolerance can be difficult."
This is precisely the crux of my message: no one should allow themselves to suffer on the grand idea that their love is unconditional. You have the right to self-love and boundaries. I have heard, "But I love him!" far too often from women with Black eyes. I would not tell people what they should do, but I would say that no one should allow themselves to be abused for the sake of a philosophical idea. I pose this to make people think about what they mean when they say "unconditional love..."
Hell, I ain't no expert. Lord knows I struggle daily with these ideas--but I don't use the concept of love to rule over other people or make them bend to my whims. Part of freedom and lack of worry is recognizing and side-stepping chains, which is the gist of what I am saying.
As for my worry--I have a huge fear of surrendering my body to people I don't know. I have to trust their expertise and their intentions, and my trauma wounds make it very difficult to trust anyone fully--so, I would say I have a near phobia of going under--my heart rate elevates, and I tremble. I wouldn't say I like going under.
And meh—typos, smypos—I am sure I will have a few by the end of this comment. LOL.
Important distinction. I think the problem is is the term “unconditional love“ is overused and used inappropriately. I like your version.
Surgery is scary for anyone. Let alone someone with the autoimmune diseases you live with on the daily.
We will be here waiting for you. Sending you all the love.
I'll be anxiously awaiting to hear how you're doing! The Golden Rule is THE rule, baby! A rabbi once told me that is what Judaism is centered around...he said the rest is commentary. Be well. You Substack family is rooting for you! ❤️
The rest is just commentary... I truly love that. Always great to see a comment from you--thank you!
Hey Alicia🌻
Sending you good vibrations from London 🐇🙏🏻💙see you soon 🫂
Thank you, Mahesh! Sending love!
Sending you love and get well wishes and gentle hugs! 💚💚💚💚💚💚
Thank you, Sue--and thanks for the gentleness-- I am hoping the pain will be gone if not immediately, then soon enough :-)
I hope with you that the pain is gone soon too!!! 💚💚💚💚💚
Beautiful distinction.
May your surgery go smoothly and your recovery uneventful 😌
Love to you, Susan! Thank you!
I left my comment on you tube . You will do fine with surgery . Hugs and peace
Thank you, Mitch; as always, I appreciate you and your comments.
As I do yours , I understand your worries I had them before my surgery but mine was on heart . You you will get through yours fast , and healthy . If you need anything just ask . Hugs and peace
I hope all goes well for you Alicia.
Hey, Charlotte--thank you so much! *hugs*
Alicia Norman: First of all: Armando predicts that, post-surgery, post-healing, post-rehabilitation, Alicia Norman will be healthier and stronger. Alicia Norman is already a strong woman.
Let's not talk of end-days here. The nurse HAS to ask, because that question is part of the Hospital's risk-management requirement.
YOU will be fine.
I have no question.
NOW:
Speaking from loving Nancy, my light-and-love, for 53-years (51-years married), love is ALWAYS: (1) Love the other person in a way that builds the dignity and strength of BOTH parties; (2) Each party doing what helps her own and the partner's health and well-being; (3) Being honest AND gentle and considerate with BOTH PARTIES.
I think your video said it quite well.
Your voice and intonation show deep goodness in you and your values of love are right and beautiful.
No wonder I love our developing friendship!
YOU are a person WELL WORTH listening to, a person who is deeply good and thoughtful, a spiritual person.
OMG, big hugs to you! I missed your voice in the space, and I hope you are well! Please give Nancy and your lovely daughter big hugs from me! How is she doing, by the way? And how was Budapest? Thank you for the well wishes. I hope all the positivity flies into the ether and is regarded by any energy with a mind or ability or hear... :-D
Alicia Norman: You really have something here:
"I hope all the positivity flies into the ether and is regarded by any energy with a mind or ability or hear."
As far as The Love-of-My-Life, she is doing quite well and is a happy, strong person.
Budapest, even under the illiberal democracy of Orban Victor (Hungarians put the family name first, so, I will follow their custom in speaking of Orban), yes, Budapest is a wondrous, beautiful place.
What inspired me most as Nancy and I dined at a café on the Danube riverfront was that at all hours of darkness, ALL HOURS, a woman, a child, a group of women, a little playful group of kids, could walk luxuriously and leisurely on the busy waterfront with no fear, no apprehension whatsoever, that anyone would bother them as the women or kids enjoyed themselves in conversation or play that Mother Nature INTENDED for the woman or child. They were completely safe.
For that reason ALONE, I could move to Budapest and not give a thought to politics.
You are an inspiration!
I completely agree, and love your take on this topic. When I depart from this earth, I wanna be known for that as well!
You’re a gem, Alicia! Thank you for putting this out there. It made me think!
Wishing you a speedy recovery!❤️🩹
Thank you, Kelly. I have thought about and struggled with it for years because it never felt right as an idea. I get what the message is trying to say, "Love me despite my imperfections..." but I think there is a better way to do this/say this.
I think if we look at love as a reciprocal feedback loop, then loving someone would mean loving them despite their flaws because we want them to do the same for us. When we push the idea that love should be and "is" a two-sided affair--as they say, love is an action... we know what we want, who we want, and what we can and desire to give. I think it is just a healthier way of looking at it and may help people have better relationships--or at least that is my fervent hope.
And thank you -- I just got a call from my doctor --I developed a welted rash from not being on my immunosuppressants, and they want to ensure I can have the surgery on Wednesday... SMDH.
I agree with that 100%!
I’m sorry you’re dealing with that, truly! I understand how bad the healthcare system is in this country. I’m a patient and an ex-medical worker. I understand your struggles. I truly hope you get great care, and that this doesn’t turn into a fiasco. I understand some about immune disorders. They’re not fun for people who have them, and they’re tricky to treat.
Keep your beautiful chin up, my friend! You’re doing great! ♥️♥️♥️
Thank you, Kelly! You guys are keeping me so uplifted... smiling everyday!
That’s so good to hear!
I send you positive healing vibes. We'll be here when you come off the Injured List.😃😃
Thank you, Charles. I am told I will feel sick but have plenty of painkillers post-surgery--I'm not too fond of painkillers and hope I won't need them...